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CS was better when it was in black and white...
Posted by Nic on the 21st of August 2008 at 12:07 PM
The big debate this week focuses on whether new school UK 1.6ers are as good as the old school crew.
Taken from Uzi's column:
Click here to have your say on the matter. Or post here if you don't have an account/are bannedI often get told how the avergae CS player nowadays is as good as some of the best ones from years past. What utter rubbish. You're getting worse - not better!
Modified by
Nic on August 21, 2008, 1:09 pm.Comments
Page 1 (77 comments total)
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id agree with the older players being better, but then you get 1 or 2 players like me who break through and are better than the old schoolers. no1 will ever be as keen as kalleh, EVER. h@
jay is only keen at selling crack to the kids
its just a pointless discussion... The newer players are far keener than the older players ever were, they have to be, with things like deathmatch and constant mixes, pugs... gathers.. that kind of shit... better connections... better computers.. better all round setups... in the old days you'd be hard pushed to find a player who wasnt lost without his config... Times change, so do player goals.
the only difference is that the game is based on 70%aim Reaction and 30% thinking where as in the earlier days, i'd say it was almost exactly the other way round..
w/e ^^
andeh on August 21, 2008, 1:56 pm.
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The amount of good players has decreased I'll give you that but the best players of today and the best players of yesteryear are equally as good.
Cheating has gone up not because players are getting worse but because they don't care about cs anymore.
"the kids are much more keener, 10x the PC's that we used to have.. i remember my old PC was like a 2.2 with 512ram..."
....
forget it
people were much keener back in the day tbh :/ everyone used to pcw looooads more than they do now
zak, when i say back then i mean like 7 years ago, not when you were in n5d loving a bit of casual cs.
Agreed zaKed
back in the day i would play pcws till 5am, get up at 3pm and then start playing again.
no one does that anymore. no dedication!
to be fair theres only about 30 people eligible to comment on this website... and ace is one of them...
It's all about age of a player, the 16 - 18 yr olds lovin cs goin college no real bills to pay, the older you get you tend to lose interest that is why new players will enter the top teams and the majority of the old players will die out.
thanks for that captain obvious
"back in the day i would play pcws till 5am, get up at 3pm and then start playing again.
no one does that anymore. no dedication!"
my exact routine =[
theres nothing to play for, so many decent teams in csgn a few years ago..now its died out..big shame
no problem lieutenant dick
Ace still hyper as ever?
I remember about 5 years ago harvy all you'd have to do is mention
#megamix lets go, and you'd have about 20 people in it, then we'd just sit on vent for about 6-7 hours doing gathers and playing isketch till about 5am in the morning and then get up rinse and repeat, you just don't see that any more
Top teams in the uk today wouldnt compete with half of the good teams back in the days of UKCSL
i think they would inflikt
the level of cs has stepped up a fair bit :E
jovanlOl on August 21, 2008, 3:51 pm.
Modified by
Moderners have no style, no sophistication. The great rivalries are of near identical personailities, there's as much intensity as a pack of ready salted crisps.
#63 | en Ct-R | Posted on 21/08/08 4:19pm
You can't honestly say that CS was played at the same level 5 years ago as it is now, Uzi. The freedom of the game has been saturated, nothing is new anymore - the people in say 'the early era' were inventing new things and being creative.. there isn't much left that hasn't been done now.
Ok, as an example... watch the infamous SK vs NoA at CPL Winter 2003. The aim is similar.. however;
the movement of the players is inferior, the tactical 'elemeNt' wasn't quite as precise nor efficient, it was just generally not as organised as the highskilled team of today.
Reasons for this being people/teams have had to cope with these different situations within a given map environment.. and they've learnt how to counter or play against it. You put a guy who hasn't played for 3 years into say ramp on nuke. The guy (if he was good back then) will have excellent communication, teamplay and most probably aim, but have teams like say TLR or TCM holding then slowly grinding down their opposition and he won't be able to cope with the new style the game is being played.
You can't really say that a player from back then is better than a player now. Like any sport on paper the current crop of players are always going to be technically 'better' than their ancient counterparts.. but it's all relative to the state of the game and the overall level of the game at the time? You can't say George Best is better than Cristiano Ronaldo, or likewise.. because you just can't say who's better. There are WAY too many variables to take into consideration before making what would almost definitely be an irrational decision.
Quoted........
What does this have to do with players being worse or better than they used to be? Well it just annoys me to see some things that get said which have no basis in fact. There is no way that the current top ten teams in the UK could have taken on the top ten from two or three years ago and hope to come out on top. There is of course a shining example in one current team but since I wax lyrical about them so often I'm not going to start praising them again here.
As the better players up and leave the remaining players all get shunted further towards the top (skill wise). These guys aren't getting any better - they just get promoted by default. One day - I will be the best CS player in the UK. I may be the only one left for that to happen but I hope you take the point.
Ok Mr Uzi lets use SK-Gaming as a benchmark, more specifically SpawN in 2003 & 2008. This 1.6 team have been around forever and so has SpawN. SpawN in 2003 was playing for the best team in the world, as he (arguably) is now. The best team in the UK was 4Kings. You put the two teams together (in 2003) and SK would be the victors, but not without a fight from 4K. 2008 now. dignitas (the current top UK) vs SK, similar result. How can you honestly say that people don't improve and that it's all down to the order of a stack of players.
There's a reason there are so many unsuccessful comebacks to CS and people at the top flight quitting, they just can't cope with the way it's now played.
There are ALWAYS going to be 3/4 teams that compete at a higher level than the rest, there always has been. Even in football there's the domestic skill gap between the top 4 (Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal) and the rest of the country. To say there's NO WAY that a current top 10 UK team wouldn't beat a top UK team from 2004/5 is ridiculous.
You go round up Landed of 2005. I use these as an example because firstly the majority of their players quit around this era, and secondly they were within the top 5 UK at the time. Let them play together for 2 months then place them against TCM/TLR/FTD - and i'd imagine it to be a close game.
You see my theory is the best players are the best players due to few key attributes. The first obviously being aim, the others being teamwork, communication and ability to adapt.If you have these charactierists in your gamestyle then you will be able to cope no matter what year it is.
Quoted........
The usual lines trotted out include things like "tactics have evolved so much" or "players understand the game better and have greater skills" or the wonderful "people have been playing it for longer so they're better than they used to be back then". All of course utter drivel.
AGAIN, SpawN in 2003 won't be as technically good as SpawN in 2008. Suffz and Kal_101 were dog in 2003, but are much better in 2008. Yeah playing for longer doesn't mean you will improve? Get a grip. And of course people understand the game better. How you can even write that is beyond me.
... cheaters. Once again your point is void. How many of the top 5 UK teams have you seen cheating in pcw's or officials in the past year? Probably none. People used to cheat in the big games a few years ago, not just the little shitters you play against in pcws about but don't really care about. There are better systems now with improved AC measures. Gone are the days of people being able to use 16bit in leagues (CSGN Seasons 1/2/3/4/5) or being able to wallhack with only a HLTV and VAC to stop them.
How you can guage the number of cheats I don't know, but if anything UK CS has improved tenfold for its level of integrity in competitive CS. Naturally there are certain players (we all know who they are) who have a reputation of being out and out cheats but these people must be ignored.
Ok i've had numerous phone calls and a friend come round during the writing of this so I lost focus of what I was trying to say. Basically, no.
I'm not slating you Uzi i'm just voicing an opinion to the article you wrote. Smile
xxxCt-RsUpErStAr2k84lyPhExxx
Of course old players are nowhere near as good as new ones, watch a demo of SK 2003 and compare to SK 2008.
Murdy on August 21, 2008, 4:04 pm.
My guess would be scores of 16-0 (mr15) and 13-0 (mr12) to the newer one. Seriously, aim is 100x better, strats are 100x better, the fact that in older days people rushed a site with 2 flashes and still won would never happen today.
But then again, if you mean skill in terms of comparing it to what was the top level then all I can say is that the UK scene was better in that aspect.
Modified by
also who is uzi to say, what does he know?!
Holy shit Tom, is that viagra working on the wrong head? ;-)
Also it's not really about new or older players, more how the game has evolved, ie strats, aim, different techniques (russian, tap, etc). It's no longer people sitting crouching spraying 30 bullets into someones foot :|
Id say olden day florists > florists these days
DoZ you should have got me in for ukterrorist
Aparthy took over there dude, we can't be fucked ;-)
btw, Hayes says he loves you and he taught you how to pull girls
If its better than why have we all these players playing mixes throughout the day and still only 3 good uk teams.
There was a time where you would have no problem finding a pcw against a top team with top players. These days you will be lucky finding 5 people who can actually play on anti cheat.
Why are you with HAyes now?! haha tell him hello! xxx
Im sure somewhere someone still does something similar sunz? aint u on a tour round the world btw? or is it over
< Properly the best player left
I remember about 5 years ago harvy all you'd have to do is mention
!
#megamix lets go, and you'd have about 20 people in it, then we'd just sit on vent for about 6-7 hours doing gathers and playing isketch till about 5am in the morning and then get up rinse and repeat, you just don't see that any more
u were SO bad at isketch sunz
Back in 1.3 we had the ultimate pcw finding monster - I remember Fusion doing loads of pcws each night (CO scoring, not MR15/15). That pcw finding monster was TeppuM!
Uncle died harvy gunna hang on till xmas have a few mates heading to auz then so we are gunna head over with them then, doubt it to harvy used to have 80 good active players in that channel, i count about 10 now, and the 10 don't play ne more
^ l0l DoZ sunz quark dh all noobs
I saw morgan once in real life, thought he wuz a girl..p.s whats he'she doing nowadays ?
Hey Stu - no idea. Let's start a facebook hunt for him!
It is kind of better now as 4 years back the attitudes of the elite were disgusting :]
don't know about skill level but cs is no fun any more
All you new schoolers are shit /the end
[21:24] Ste Hay: tell tom "hello! xxx"
ahah phil yes i was bad at isketch benji and olsen were good so to was marcus but his voice droned through me, doz you weren't that bad, tom you were horrid harvy all you did was draw long armed things
+ whats he up 2
sunzz on August 21, 2008, 9:58 pm.
Doz ask hayes does he still have that teddy
hey stu
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i feel sorry for the new schoolers they didn't experience the old community, and Ct-r man keep off the md lol
sunzz - he's doing ok, trying to finish grade 8 guitar so he can teach that, working for some internet poker site (I forget which one) and in a strange irony considering his racism, he's dating a chinese bird!
see, uzi's a real 'for-the-community' guy. sparking off debates, trying to breathe life into the corpse of counter-str1k3. my 2 senzzz??? stop playing computer games fellas! BROP! BROP BROP?!
much love!
the comunity is split up into to many groups to ever become a good community , if that makes sense
basicly the same people have played with the same people for the last couple of years pretty much just mixing the teams around every 6 months or so .. with no big teams giving the smaller guys a chance .. i dont blame em like most people that think there high skilled are complete egotistic twats.
Posted by 000sunzz from Grinded on Aug 21, 21:56.
ahah phil yes i was bad at isketch benji and olsen were good so to was marcus but his voice droned through me, doz you weren't that bad, tom you were horrid harvy all you did was draw long armed things Grin
Doz ask hayes does he still have that teddy Grin whats he up 2
hey stu Grin
asif i'm top uk alwayz
whos new school and whos old school ? :/
Aint gunna lie bluds, im the new kardy!
4k world stage, top uk team! ranked quite high? NOT.
Since they added game hours, i play less, coz otherwise ill look like kenjinn 100 hours
why not just make your profile private
yea all you new schoolers are so bad, too easy for oldbones like myself these days
can u still check old csgn seasons? i remeber first time i pld cs properly was in a csgn cup and we pld cs marines and beat em. they were supposed to be decent back then but this was years ago
Depends who was playing for marine, some of them were good, others not so, they were a bunch of mates who weren't playing hard and going pro. Hence b0b never being able to be signed up by 4k
b0b and daz, CHEATERS....
pretty sure marines were dead long before CSGN ever started.
sicKboy on August 22, 2008, 11:41 am.
marines were a CB clan along with the other old school teams b!tch, SA, UKLA, 4D, VeTs, TSTP etc etc etc
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b0b was v good, just didn't take it seriously, shame really. probs best in uk at the time
Zzzzz.
SK miles better now than they were when they dominated the world scene, and now they aren't even top 3.
That says all that needs to be said.
b0b was around when the cs scene was still very amateur tho...
back when the only team to go to a lan event outside the UK was 4kings.
plus b0b was a fragging machine, now days its all about the gamesense and out playing people rather than outaiming them.
You cant compare on the basis that the game has changed so much over the years, 1.3 you could bhop the whole map, 1.5 silent awping and more round times, 1.6 the pace is fast cause you have less time to do your tactics. Aim, gamesense and knowledge will always be the same as the maps havent changed(much)?
Peopel change how they play the game, and so tactics and positions that used to work won't. Just as football used to be a very attacking-centric game, it's now based around fitness and defence. The talents of the old players compare to the new ones, but the new ones would win because it's about the levels of fitness they've attained.
There's not going to be the exact same crossover to a less physical game like cs, but if the game plays much faster, then it sounds like there's a lot less patience picking and complex fakes. A faster game means more coordination, rather than being about someone making a mistake and peeking where they shouldn't.
But I can only guess, I've no idea how modern cs really plays. Let's face it, I barely had a clue back then either ;-)
Disturbed weren't that bad DoZ
agree with significant yellow, even in the short term stuff that works really well doesn't after a few officials because everyone sees it and looks out for it. Prime example - hiding behind the wall at the entrance B on inferno, used to work 90% of the time and everyone would run past you, now you get spammed after about 3 seconds or someone checks there.
sorry but the likes of george best and Pele would still run circles around most defenses same as alot of old school cs players. The game has changed but the raw talent for the game was at a higher standard a couple years back.
sicKboy on August 22, 2008, 3:06 pm.
Modified by
its all relative, but a few years back, there was loads more people playing at all levels of cs. but tbh, you get old decent players that dont play much anymore but can still get to grips with the 'modern game' as it's been put. cs is easier these days because every1 plays the same game - everyone knows all the little tricks so its boring, no suprises anymore.
sunnz - dist weren't, but I was. Only reason I stayed was because I did tactics, calls and made the fucker ;-)
such as who sickboy? we talking old old school or 2004/5 school. And quite frankly the former...no way, the latter many of those who did quit and come back have been shadows of their former selves.
CAI CHEEKY monster!
where is spaznaz these days the retard?
<3 the old skoolers
aaron loving ukct again =] and how come neil_M hasnt commented yet :? he died after that video leak out of him?
cs marines were deffo still around when csgn started, in the first or second season tho. back when i was like div3/4 and prem teams were pro to me, haha good times. practically begging choke and ctx to play us then we get hammered like 16 - 5
the level of cs players in the uk has gone up constantly, but so has the immaturity, the lack of commitment/seriousness and the lack of opportunity.
To be fair, old school or not the uk are dog - on an international scale ofc
fucking ban me nic, i can't take this filth any longer.
half you cunts only started cs when 1.6 came out